CYOE 2

[Gunblader]

As we finish this game, its time to start thinking about the next one.

Do we want to have another one?

What would you like to see in the next one?

What rules need to be changed?


Please put your suggestions in here.

[Omega Chief]

If we do another one I'd like a fair bit of time to amend the rules adding in everything we've clarified, and some new ideas of my own I've come up with over the course of the game.

And of course I'd love to hear peoples idea's for traits and techs as well as opnions on a few new details I'm working out.

[Kane]

Few ideas I had for a round two...

First, make the map bigger. More space will give folks more area to control. Actually run a real empire instead of just a collection of empty systems. In the same vein with a bigger map, maybe add a handful of "NPC" empires. Independent planets and the like. They wouldn't have anything fancy; base fleet, maybe a planet or so, wouldn't get to build or anything, but it would provide a bit of a buffer between empires, and give reason to create fleets.

Second is a way to limit production capabilities. First thought is to have asteroid belts and Class U planets only be able to support a finite number of production stations. The other is to add in another station type; the mining station. Asteroids and Class U planets can only support so many of these mining/refining stations, and these are what produce Production Points, which can only be spent by a Production Station. This would allow someone to centralize their ship yards, but would still force them to expand in order to fuel the fires of industry. Needless to say, this would go hand-in-hand with a redesign in how production stations pump out ships.

Third is a bit of a tech re-design. Instead of having different costs and research times, make them all standard. If these games are going to only last 20-ish turns or so, having tech that takes nearly half that time (7 out of 10) to research doesn't seem very feasible. Plus, it would allow some techs to come into play, making each research and technology more able to be suited to players strategy. I'm not saying put all tech where weapons and defenses are right now, but rather put them all where propulsion or range are. That is to say, between 6,000 and 7,000 RP, and take 4 or 5 turns to implement.

The production upgrade trait, while handy, only really seemed to come into play when one had large numbers of production facilities. Since we're discussing changing the production around, maybe this trait needs a bit of a tweak. Not much, I think; just bump it up to an even 10 instead of just five. The same applies to the negative trait, to keep it fair.

Moral should probably factor in higher next round as well. If someone pulls off a stunning victory, their people are probably going to rejoice. Likewise, if your fleet is decimated down to the last ship, your people are going to be unhappy. In terms of how to decide what a stunning victory or defeat is, look at the Production cost of a battle. If your side gave as good as it got, the effects are going to be less one way or the other. If you won, although your "tonnage" lost was greater than the enemies, your people are probably not going to be terribly impressed. Likewise in the opposite direction; if you lost, but took more with you than fell, your people might be more understanding. Basically get the divided loyalties trait more into play than trying to play the PR game.

As for new ideas altogether, I might have something to counter the Theocracy trait. Technocracy; you get a research bonus, but loyalty suffers slightly as the lower classes cannot afford the technology that higher classes can. Alternately, one could take it for a ship power bonus (Yours are just better), but at a production cost (They're harder to make). Or maybe allow a mix-match of some neutral traits (A buff for a penalty), let people tailor one to their empire. You admins would get the final say on those, however.

Just to throw ideas out there, anyways.

[Shard]

I'd be up for another round, and I know three people who'd be interested in joining in, plus whoever sticks around from this round.

I've already made a few suggestions regarding traits, but I'll throw them out again.

Fleet Balance, as it stands, is useless. Unfortunately, if boosted it risks become overpowered. I'd suggest scrapping it. We discussed the idea of making strike craft carrier dependent - which gives a whole rack of new possible traits, ie.

Carrier Doctrine - capitals can support more strike craft (positive, duh)
Independent Strike Craft - strike craft do not require carriers, but are weaker (neutral?)
Limited Hangars - capitals can support fewer strike craft (negative)

I've still got a soft spot for the combat doctrines I originally suggested, where you only got one, but it gave you a few unique ship classes.

Research needs some work. After I superpowered Kane to 8k RP per turn, it became pretty clear that it wasn't as useless as I thought - but it was also ever so slightly silly. Personally, I'd be tempted to scrap the current system and replace it with a full scale tech tree, which costs nothing to research, but just slowly advances. Having more research facilities unlocks additional tiers of the tech tree and more advanced stuff. Your starting tech is a top tier one, to keep the flavour of difference.

Also, buff planets

[Omega Chief]

Right, here's the current idea's I'm working on in regards to the production thing.

Actually been working on this a while, anyway, the idea for the second edition is that each system can only support x number of stations, and each system also has an 'infrastructure' rating of between 0 and 5.

Numbers ar esubject to change here, but to use it as an example:

A System with infrastructure rating of 0 but with stations/planets in can produce only Strike Craft and only output 100pps worth of ships a turn.

Rating 1 would let you output up to CL-1's and a total of 500pps worth of ships a turn

Rating 2 would be up to CL-2's and a total of 700pp

Rating 3 would be up to CL-3's and a total of 1500pp

Rating 4 would be up to CL-4's and a total of 2400pp

And finally only systems with a rating of 5 could build CL-5's (Or UHCL's if you've got the tech) and an unlimited number of pp's a turn.

Now to make planets more usful I'm throwing annumber of ideas around, such as inbuilt defences, getting around the limited stations per system (Should make the two starting planets more attractive an option) and perhaps boosting the systems infrastructure rating to thier class automatically.

So for example a Class 5 planet would make the system it's in have an infrastructure rating of 5 just like that, you could achive the same effect with a Class 2 and Class 3 planet too.

I just need to work on a decent station limit number, and then I can rebalance the price/time of techs, though the issue is with a larger map the games could last a lot longer.

I do appricate any and all new techs and traits you come up with though!

[ww2jacob]

I like most of the ideas thrown out so far, especially the tech tree, bigger map, and Omega's production ideas. However, I think one thing to consider is that we don't want things to get too overcomplicated for people. The more things people have to micromanage each turn, the more work each turn becomes, and, in my opinion, the more it becomes like a chore to do. I think one thing the current CYOE did well was a good balance of simplicity vs complexity, especially in the day-to-day stuff. So perhaps if we want to add new complex elements into the game, we should consider removing or trimming other elements to keep the game streamlined and constantly fun. This becomes even more important when you're talking about getting more people, many who will be brand-new to this type of game, into the action.

I'd be in favor of wrapping this one up within the next few days, taking a couple weeks off and then getting started with a new one in... mid May, perhaps? I'm going to be swamped IRL between now and then so that would be ideal for me.

[Gunblader]

ADMIN MODE!

End on turn 28


gives me and OC the weekend to plan and tweak

[Omega Chief]

Personally I don't like the Tech Tree idea, or forcing Strike Craft to have a base.

As it stands the only more complicated thing I'd like to add in would be the new production system, and limiting stations, which I've been developing as simply as possible to keep things as simple as possible, as I think we alla gree the simplicity of this game is what helped make it fun and easy to work with.

[Abdiel]

Definitely either limit production per system or per station (as in earlier CYOFs, building a new station was an achievement, and most systems had only a small amount of resources) or limit placement of new ships (as in the last CYOF, you had to build more bases if you wanted to build more ships). Having your 200 production stations some 10 systems away and still placing huundreds of ships to that single forward base (or anywhere else on the map!) is just stupid. The last CYOF and now CYOE are won and lost with how much production can you get, and there is no real incentive in expanding.

On the other hand, I liked the reduction to 2 jumps per turn. Maybe even reduce it to one, instead of making the universe larger? Maybe an innovative idea would be to have regular movements for 2 jumps, but secret moves for only one.

I would really like more exact statements on what do traits/techs really do. When I read "makes your capships stronger", I imagined some 20, maybe up to 50% bonus. Then I was told that it in fact makes them twice as strong! But then, I always like more exact definitions and numbers.

On a similar note, maybe formalize the strategies. I am not yet sure how that could work, but let's say you have several possible "tactics" you can use, and some tactics are better against another, kind of a rock-paper-scissross-handgun-nuke-starship-black hole scenario. Allow people to combine the strategies, or involve randomness somehow - again, I have not thought about this in detail. But writing 3 pages of strategies only to later find out that the very first assumption you made was not true, and it all got pretty much ignored, is just stupid.

Last, bring back enforced treaties, i.e. when you form an official alliance, you have to spend a turn breaking the alliance before you can attack an ally.


Oh, remove the fcking javascript resizing the page!

[Gunblader]

Fixing the resizing. We are moving!
cyoe.getphpbb.com/portal.php?sid=08278179386664c2366ad03253e24039

get registered.

[Kobi]

I wanted to make the map larger =/.

[Bubble Wrap]

I would like a larger map, even if bits of it go unused, it gives more options

[Gunblader]

Sorry guys, wrong forum. Go here:

z7.invisionfree.com/CYOEgame/index.php

[Abdiel]

Got an idea for a trait:

As I am tired of everyone just self-destructing whatever is under attack, let's make a slight change to taking over stations: You can't self-destruct them, but you need a special trait to be able to capture enemy stations (understand the technology, enslave the civilians...). If you don't have the trait, you can either destroy the stations, or leave them standing there as NPCs. You could do that either as a diplomatic solution, or to wait for an ally who has that trait to come and get them. Of course, if the original owner returns, they can just reclaim the stations for themselves without needing anything extra.

Or you can make capturing the stations without the trait possible, but taking several turns. This won't make just destroying anything you can't use such a no-brainer, and the trait would give you an advantage as you can start using them immediately.

[Kane]

Alternately, require a particular trait to get that kamikaze thing going. Unity, or Theocracy for example. Zealotry is zealotry, after all, whether it's religious or otherwise.